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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:55 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:35 pm
Posts: 81
I'm starting to put together some ideas on starting a build up for a new motor. I want to build a 23 degree sbc (because I already have everything 23 degree) that will make about 700hp. It's going to be run on alky mostly. I already have a set of 23 degree Pro Action heads with 230cc runners that I would like to use.

I'm thinking of a good 400+ cu.in. setup with a dart block and roller cam.

Can you guys post some ideas on which direction to go that will be the most economical and reliable setup.

I'm mainly looking for cam ideas and bore/stroke combinations.

Thanks,
Jason
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Last edited by 4link1955 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:33 am 
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I will start out by saying most people dont realize what it takes to make 700hp with a 23 degree headed small block...key word 23 degree head. I dyno all my stuff (and its all 23 degree) so I can give you some pretty real world figures.

Your Heads are not a bad starting place and they will probably support 650-670 with a little Chad S. TLC :wink: ...I have a set of 11x Brodixs (std. exhaust) on my 406 that have some minor bowl work, gasket match and some light port work. Its 14.5.1 compression, 950 Rupert alky, Bullet 4/7 swap (I will be happy to share the grind in a PM as its a custom cut piece..not trying to be a d i c k but it works!!), Brodix HV 1000 (that has been ported), NGK 9's, 35 degrees of timing (it looses 17hp @ 37 and looses 21hp @ 33) and I made 667@7300 and 600ft lbs @ 5300. I run a BTE 8 inch c50+ behind it.

Personaly I like the 406 stuff better simply because your not going to run out of cylinder head. Once you get into the 421-434 motors you need some port work to make good power. As well the rod angles are not so severe as a 434..re..easier on the roatating parts...again JMO.

700 HP is a lofty goal for a 23 degree headed motor...good luck!!


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 9:48 am 
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Shooter..........check you pm's

Jason
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Last edited by 4link1955 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:03 am 
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Posts: 438
Hey Jason,

You know I have got nothing but good things to say about chad and his service. He will set you up right. I can't wait till I get back and unleash the true potential of the headwork that he did with a new cam. I have been told by others that the flow numbers of my heads would support 700 hp with the right cam and compression.

Good luck!

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Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:11 am 
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Hey Bill,
How are things with you? Hope all is well. I can't agree with you more about Chad, He has taken alot of time with me a few months ago to explain several things and has been very helpful. When I'm ready for head work he will defintly be the one I call.

Thanks,
Jason
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Last edited by 4link1955 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:43 pm
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Location: Spring City Pa
Jason - if you really want to do it with 23 degree heads I agree with Shooter keep it a 406. Then you can use the Dart Little M 400 block and stock stroke 400 crank and not worry about things getting in the way inside the block. I'm building a 414" motor (it was going to be a 421" but the piston delivery time forced me to rethink it.) We're using an Iron Eagle Dart block, raised cam and spread frame rails make more room but also mean you're not reusing any standard small block stuff. Went to the LS-1 firing order and big block cam bears to help stabilize the valve train too. I'm using 18 degree heads from Curtis but Doug Doll (who drives our S/C house car used to run a 414" 23 degree stock 400 block in his former dragster. That baby ran 7.70's all day long on alky. Good luck with your build up - if you have any questions feel free to call.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:33 am 
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Thanks Don,
I'm starting to think like you guys and saying to myself that I might be better off with a 406. I want good power but I also want reliability too.

I'll defintly give you a call.

Thanks,
Jason
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Last edited by 4link1955 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 11:55 am 
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Hey Jason,

I am doing well, about half way though my tour over here. Looking forward to getting back and doing some racing. Sounds like you got the go fast bug, Just remember that you are going to have to take car of that valvetrain with the lift ranges that you need to meet your goal.


Good luck

Bill

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Bill Simpkins
Empty Pockets Racing
74 Chevy Nova
smallblock 406 with the original Airwolf heads.
1/8 6.15@110mph (11/11)
1/4 9.87@131 (02/13) On the rev limiter.
Fourtenposi@yahoo.com


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:13 pm
Posts: 177
Location: Northern Illinois
OK. How much power does a 7.70 range dragster make at the crank? My 383 ran 8.06 last year at about 1750#'s. Does the Wallace calculator give tire or crank HP? What percent loss is associated with a glide and 9"?


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:53 pm 
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I'd suggest going with Alcohol injection (Rons), it'll solve most of your intake flow problems.

My (toilet) injected 355 SBC makes 680HP(dyno'd) running 9.20 in the 1/4 @148mph in a 2650lb door car.


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Location: Illinois
Bucky wrote:
OK. How much power does a 7.70 range dragster make at the crank? My 383 ran 8.06 last year at about 1750#'s. Does the Wallace calculator give tire or crank HP? What percent loss is associated with a glide and 9"?


I don't know about the wallace calculator but I'd guesstimate you are in the 660-680 range on corrected HP.

Scott

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:12 am 
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After some research and some serious thought I have decided that I will probally go with the big bore short stroke 421" combo instead of the 434". I'm wanting some with as much longevity as possible and I feel like the 421 combo with my 23 degree heads will be my best option.

Here are my first thought as far as the components I'm thinking about using so please feel free to comment and offer any suggestion pros and cons.

Block: Dart Iron Eagle Block bored to 421" specs
Rotating assembly: Forged steel crank 3.875 stroke, scat H-beam Rods, Wiseco's forged domes pistons
Cam: Bullet Roller cam (per their recomendation)
Heads: Thinking about either ordering a set of the Pro Action 230cc heads and having Chad tweak them alittle or keeping the current 220cc heads I have now but still get Chad to work them over.
Intake: GM Bowtie intake fully ported

I know reaching 700hp will probally not happen with this setup but I feel like it will be close.

Whate are you guys thoughts....any suggestion?

Thanks,
Jason
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Last edited by 4link1955 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:13 am 
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Location: Mayfield Kentucky
Pretty close to my engine that makes real close to 700.
4.125 Little M
Scat crank 3.875
Wiseco 13.5:1
Eagle 6.00
Hedman 1 7/8
Ultradyne/Bullett 271/279 .681/.640 106LS 104IC
T&D shaft rockers
Ron's Toilet
Here is the kicker:
Pontiac 867 Raised runner heads ported by Larry Meaux.
I like your choice of the Iron Eagle block over the Little M that I have.
I wouldn't recommend going to raised runner heads such as mine. The components that you need to buy to set them up will put your budget in 15° or 18° territory.
My recommendation would be if you want to stay 23° send a good set of heads to Chad and let him work his magic.
Or go to a good 15 or 18° head and not have any growing pains in the future.

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Posts: 170
Location: Illinois
I agree, good choice on block. If you ever want to go to a 4" or larger stroke you'll have plenty of room. I wish we would have gone that route instead of stuffing it in a littleM.

Cylinder heads... If you are going to have Chad work on something I'd would not buy a different head and just have him re-work what you got. Now this is assuming that the your 220 casting (I thought I read in the other thread that they were 230 castings?) has enough meat to allow Chad to do what is needed. I would think it would be cheaper this way?

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scottoffermann@inbox.com

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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:56 pm
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Location: Akron, OH
Jason ? I just waded thru all of the bs in your thread on DRR (not your fault) and made a suggestion. But, I understood you already had the Dart Little M and the Pro Action 230cc heads. If you are going to buy new 23? heads, I?d recommend looking at the All Pro RR245 heads from Ron?s Porting Service. They will support over 800 hp (i.e., you?ll have room to grow). And, if you think you?ll want to grow, the Iron Eagle block will make it a lot easier.
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Last edited by 383Malibu on Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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